#or the godtier example

[conceptofjoy]

What would happen in a scenario where Dirkhalsprite^ DOESN'T immidietly expl💥

homie wouldnt have been having a great time. i mean the trickster arc was directly after, and if they weren't exploding directly after fusing, they would explode attempting to break up with jake LMFAO. there's too many stressful upcoming situations where either part of them would have different knee jerk responses while also going through immense internal turmoil.

[dchuntress]

you should use me as a litmus test for when you're writing m/f or m/m fics and need to know if it's good or not. if you can make ME insane about your non yuri ships, that means you've written the romance of your life, trust me. i'm not bragging i just hate MOST m/f stories especially when there are sexist undertones and i don't really care about m/m (ship and let ship is my personal motto) so if you can succeed to win me over with your fic or shipping ideas Congratulations you win a minecraft achievement

[frogshipping]

I need to make art/a doc of Viti in her various forms and outfits so I can participate in more reblog games and get art made of my selfships

[profmadscientist]

OKAY YEAH THIS GOES INCREDIBLY HARD

THEIF OF DOOM - One who steals death and finality. One who refuses to die.

i think this is the most cursed thing i could ever have made. i can��t believe i drew this instead of working on mudd week

[aerscribbles]

happy late 413!!! Hua Cheng is an internet gremlin.

(click for better image quality) (tumblr stop frying my arts pls)

ramblenotes and text transcripts under the cut:

His Symbol is originally just the flower, but he changes it to include the umbrella, a symbol of mutual protection - mirroring how he gained his title in canon. --- His chumhandle is condesationRevenant. rain ghost. --- E'Ming is literally just. his eyeball. but semi-conscious and hanging out separately from the main body. --- Namelesssprite (Wu Ming) is the result of a cross-session dreamself corpseyeet. Eventually double-dies/permanently retreats into the sprite pendant.

The sprite/pendant is then double-prototyped with GCrowsprite right as Hua Cheng godtiers.

and that's how HC died three times. ---

Living situation: after his Mom died, and his not!dad was... dealt with, he, through some timeline shenanigans courtesy of his future self, ended up living in a manor surrounded by a carapacian city.

Yin Yu is also here, ~somehow~ :) --- GAMBLER MODUS:

Base values: [LOW]=[EJECT] [MID]=[SWAP] [HIGH]=[COLLECT] [Unaccounted_Result]=[ERROR] ([ERROR] usually means something interesting will happen)

example (standard D6): 1 , 2 = [LOW] 3 , 4 = [MID] 5 , 6 = [HIGH] corner , edge , random explosion , etc , etc = [Unaccounted_Result]

Select interacteble randomizer object (DETERMINER) from any accessible inventory space. Specify STABLE [STB] or ESCALATING [ESC] Assign base values to possible results --- Hua Cheng is Lightbound as FUCK.

Seriously.

Even just looking at the Aspect themes, luck, fate, fortune, narrative and information, it's obvious.

Looking at the personality and narrative role, it's even more visible; he's at the exact overlap point of a more active Rose, a more restrained Vriska and an Aranea whose rebellion is viewed positively by the narrative.

as for the Lord bit:

Absolute Command over Luck and Information.

That's Literally Him.

Driving the narrative by pushing back the curtains.

Turning the spotlight of fortune on anyone that pleases him.

LITERALLY OVERRIDING FATE TO IMPOSE HIS DESIRES UPON THE NARRATIVE

(said desires being Xie Lian's happiness)

THIS MAN IS LIGHTBOUND AND I WILL BE ACCEPTING NO ARGUMENT. ---

TEXT TRANSCRIPTS::

Top left, under the one with wings: Lord of Light Sprite^2 Godtier

Red card, upper middle-right, under the landscape: fetch modus gambler Text bubble, dead center: CR: Fuck you, Xie Lian has done nothing wrong. Ever.

Green cards, lower middle-right, above the symbol and under the text bubble: strife specibus dicekind strife specibus bladekind

Bottom left: Namelesssprite

[key-kid-edits]

hey guys, ikey here! since we have some new mods on board, we've decided to include stimboards in the list of things we'll take requests for! IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST A STIMBOARD, PLEASE INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING: 🔹character or godtier you want the stimboard to be based around (ex. vriska serket, page of blood, a particular edit we've already done, etc). we'll additionally take ocs for the stimboard to be based on, but only if a picture of them is sent in with your ask! 🔹any colors, themes, or particular objects you want to be put in the stimboard (ex. slime, dice, glitter, etc.)

･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊ ✩ :ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･✧:ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･

EXAMPLE STIMBOARD:

💙/ 💙/ 💙 | 💙/ ♏/ 💙 | 💙 / 💙 / 💙 (Board created by Mod Whiskey)

･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊ ✩ :ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･✧:ﾟ･✧ :ﾟ･

[cgtg]

the perspectives of ppl who have a "canon godtier", particularly if they dont explain it via comparisons to the character they share with, are among the most personally interesting perspectives i've seen on these polls so far.

i personally dont think any of the hs characters should be considered perfect examples of the godtiers they have, & two completely different ppl could share the same godtier. or someone extremely similar to one of those characters could have a rlly different godtier. so it's rlly fun to see someone explore a canon godtier on its own merits & via themself.

[thewertsearch]

Second part of the giga-ask compilation!

@publicuniversalworstie asked: Why assume the Horrorterrors would know that changing events would create a doomed timeline? That assumes both A) that the horrorterrors know the future and B) that they don't think it can really be changed. Maybe they genuinely thought they could change things, such as by perhaps fulfilling all the requisite loops a different way? Imagine a scenario where a time traveler learns of their death, therefore being destined to die, and instead fake their death to create the conditions under which they learned of the death originally.

It's possible. But if the Horrorterrors do have a way to trick the Alpha Timeline like that, then they've really been holding out on us by not mentioning it to the Players. Such a revelation would completely change the game - we might even be able to fake the Earth's death.

Anonymous asked: i want to learn more about coding to analyze homestuck better - do you have a place i could start? resources? idk love the liveblog hope you're doin well :]

Absolutely! I've got two separate answers for you, depending on what your goal is here.

If your main goal is just to analyse Homestuck, then you’re probably best off picking a language whose syntax is easy to understand, such as Python. You'll pick up on the basic logic pretty quickly, and the ~ATH snippets will start to make a lot more sense.

If you’re actually interested in programming for its own sake, then I recommend you start with my own first language, C. It’s a lot harder for a newbie to get to grips with, but doing so will give you a much more solid theoretical foundation then ostensibly ‘easier’ languages.

W3schools is a decent starting resource for both languages - but if you need more specific guidance, let me know, and I'd be happy to help!

@skelekingfeddy asked: actually grubmom having the same color wires as in that pic of sahlee wasnt intentional! i based it on how sollux’s game grubs have red and blue wires attached to them

Serendipity!

Anonymous asked: Did you run any mysterious ~ath programs on that computer of yours?

Honestly, running ATH on that thing would probably have improved it.

Anonymous asked: One voice headcanon I have for Terezi is the English dub of Power from Chainsaw man

Honestly, she sounds pretty much exactly how I imagine Terezi does. She even has the horns!

@martinkhall asked: I'm surprised none of the suggested instruments for a time player were an ocarina.

Some fruit is just too low-hanging.

@delicate-ruins asked: what's an animal you like that you think doesn't show up very much in media, be it fiction or news or just generally? example: i like secretary birds. but except for videos about them, i have never heard them references.

They're not obscure, per se, but there will never be enough sloths in media. The only fictional sloth of note is Sid from Ice Age – and he does not do them justice.

Capybaras are also underrated as hell – so much so that LibreOffice, which I'm using to edit this compilation, doesn’t even recognize the word as real!

Anonymous asked: “I’m trying to figure out if it’s fully a Breath outfit, or if there’s some Heir stuff too.” the general rule for god tier outfits is that the colors and symbol represent the aspect, the clothes represent the class. so, for example, if two princes of different aspects ascended, their clothing style would be the same but they would a have different color scheme. @skaiandestiny asked: If you haven't already figured it out, class informs the godtier outfit and aspect informs the colors and icon!

In that case, there is something about John’s outfit that says ‘heir’ – but nothing really stands out to me.

@driventopoison asked: Hey, I don't know if it's just me but it seems like you've skipped ahead. I have been following your liveblog daily, but I haven't seen you come across the windy thing yet. Is this because you were using the app or something? Also just want to let you know that I love your liveblog. Keep up the good work!

Thank you! Anyway, John’s Windy Thing is indeed documented on the liveblog, and it’s visible to me. I was using the app for some of that segment, though – are app-made posts particularly buggy?

@classpecting-guide-official asked: story about a modded game of sburb where the characters notice that something isn't right and slowly realize that their world is a lie

Back in Act 1, this is pretty much what I thought was happening. It was a simpler time.

@ignis-cain asked: Note the colors the capslock flashes for WV.

When WV locks his capsule, the button’s light flashes red and green – but I’m not sure what the significance of these colors is, in this situation.

Anonymous asked: i know i'm SUPER late to answer this, but i think the instantiation thing is the same as any video game, newly made with a prebaked history. when you name your character, that has been their name for their whole life, even though you thought it up a few seconds ago. when you enter the medium, the planet has a history and the denizens have memories, even though they just showed up when you entered.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure this is indeed what’s going on. The implications are just a lot more wild when the game is physically real, rather than virtual!

@kintatsu asked: So, I know I'm a little late to the party, but I have to point out: Alternian sunlight doesn't need to be THAT much stronger than Earth's to blind Terezi as quickly as it did. Trolls are nocturnal, which means they almost definitely have a tapetum lucidum (eyeshine membrane), which means that however much light entered Terezi's eyeballs? Her retinas were blasted by every photon twice.

Damn, Vriska. For a second, I thought this ask was explaining why Terezi wasn't in as much pain as I'd thought - but this alternate explanation might actually be worse than what I was picturing!

@delicate-ruins asked: It's delightful to see somebody read Homestuck and be as charmed by it as I and a lot of my friends were way back when we first read it, and the calm, digesting pace at which you're enjoying it is honestly so nice. I rushed way too much to catch up since my friends recommended it in about 2016, which means I went from knowing nothing about the comic to being caught up on it in like a week. I never sat down with the ideas and thought "hey, does this mean XYZ?" because quite often I got the answer five seconds later as I rushed to catch up. But seeing you asking those questions is so so fun. Yeah, DOES it mean that?? Guess we'll find out! In the meantime, we get to guess, which means we basically get to have fun twice. It's reigniting my enjoyment of homestuck quite significantly, I think!

Thank you! It’s really nice to be able to engage in a dialogue about the comic through these asks, which is something that wouldn't be possible if I was speeding through it. As I always say, I'm here for a good time and a long time.

@manorinthewoods asked: Alright, here's another transtimeline fun fact. Each of the kids was supposed to have a Quest related to their associated material - John had a land covered in oil, Rose's ocean was polluted with chalk, the gears of LOHAC were gummed by amber, and LOFAF was in a nuclear winter. Ultimately, while the ocean of LOLAR is still chalky, nothing but John's oil made the cut. ~LOSS (16/5/23)

I think it was a good change, then. Not everything has to be a pattern, and Dave's two weird maybe-quests are a lot more unique and interesting than a generic 'materials quest'.

@captorations asked: oh hey, this walkaround! so funny story, i used to run a blog where i posted one of terezi’s canon appearances each day, in order. yes, i completed my task, and more besides. however! when i was wandering through this as terezi, a glitch rendered me trapped. i decided that this counted as a noteworthy appearance, and took a screenshot. then, by sheer coincidence, it ended up being posted on… halloween. it was pretty great (also don’t forget to check out ctrl + t)

You accessed the double-secret version of Past Karkat: Wake Up, which plays the Earthbound Halloween Hack version of Megalovania rather than the Homestuck one.

Anonymous asked: Personally, I think John gaining so many levels so quickly is tied to his role as the heir - he gains so many levels without really trying, not because he's better than the trolls or his friends, but because he just kind of falls into it. The game rewards him for taking the path of least resistance.

That certainly makes sense if we just look at John - but I have trouble reconciling this interpretation with our other Heir. Equius certainly has some advantages, but they aren't exactly unique to him, as you'd expect them to be if his Heir class was responsible for them.

Yes, he's a highblood, but he's outranked by three non-Heirs - and his strength doesn't seem to be unique either, as Feferi seems capable of similar feats. Perhaps Equius will trip and fall into more unique privilege, but it hasn't happened yet.

Anonymous asked: my personal headcanons for midnight crew claspects: Slick - Prince of Blood, Droog - Mage of Space, Boxcars - Knight of Heart, Deuce - Bard of Doom. knowing you youre probably gonna attempt to analyse these LOL

Slick has had ties to Blood since he first met Karkat, so that tracks - and Boxcars is a shipper, so Nepeta's aspect is probably the best fit for now. I'm not sure about the other two, but I'll revisit them later!

[davekat-sucks]

bro look at this

https://www.tumblr.com/themageofblood/653646795513233408/lets-talk-about-this-fandoms-implicit-bias

I feel bad this person gotten death threats. But at the same time, there are things I also want to make my counter arguments disproving that Strilondes/Gamzee/Meenah are harmful black stereotypes that OP themselves is stereotyping and is racist themselves for assuming. Here is also the archived link in case someone has been blocked by this person.

Hella and Dope are words and slang that can be used by anybody. Not just black people. It's often to describe something that is a lot (hella) or chill (dope). Words like these are not exclusive to black people. But if you think using how black speech talk is why characters like Dave and Dirk are black, then that means you also accepted that Dave would use the word NIGGA openly like he did in his blog.

The N-word isn't just used as a slur, but said by black people to describe a person or group of people. In some context, the n-word is used to describe someone as their friends or homies. Other times, it is used to describe someone as crazy or insane. It varies from what the context is. Black people still use that word for not just songs, books, and other media, but talk among themselves with their race and everyone around them. Casual and otherwise. Which means then someone can headcanon Dave openly calling all his friends (whether they were white, black, or alien in the trolls case) niggas. You want people who headcanon him as an uwu soft boi to say the n-word so casually? Maybe the other Beta and Alpha Kids don't mind. Have you thought of that?

If Dirk is canonically white, then shouldn't the same apply to Dave as well? After all, ECTOBIOLOGY was used to clone them. Therefore, Dave/Rose/Roxy would ALSO be white because the machine collects said DNA copy. There's nothing said about the machine that says it could change a person's race/ethnicity. And if it did, then that means in every timeline, every character existed to be any race. There is also to take into consideration that with Doomed Timelines that tells people that everyone doesn't matter besides the current timeline that the story follows. As an example, that means someone who headcanons them as like African American or Chinese in a timeline where everyone achieved godtier, grown as a person in personality and otherwise, and gotten together with whoever the person ships with, it doesn't matter because Paradox Space says so. Those people are worthless because they didn't follow the ""correct"" path to continue the timeline. If the possibility of mixed or changed races can extend to the trolls, then that means the trolls themselves could have been carrying everyone else's DNA within them. Eridan may have a partial part of him that is rustblood, Aradia could have fuchsiablood DNA in her, etc. Added with the incestuous slurry all trolls are made of, the trolls are already fucking their sister/brother/cousin. Same kind of said for the human kids if you take into account for the ectobiology that they were born in the same place from the same machine. Technicalities are weird like that.

I never understand why people think ICP and juggalos are racist. Does this person not realize there are black juggalos that do exist? Like Mr.Goodbarz for example, a rap artist. Does this person think black people who enter in juggalo culture are being traitors to their kind?

Braids are a HAIRSTYLE!!! It's not exclusive to black people!

Is Rapunzel from Tangled now racist for having her hair done in braids?!

What about Edward Elric who has a small braid?

Should people call Toko Fukawa racist for having braids too?! Lara Croft? Eliza Thornberry? WEDNESDAY ADDAMS?!! People that use this hair style are suddenly racist?! What kind of fucking logic is that?!!

What do you think then about this theory that Trickster Mode and by extension, Grimdark, changes people's skins? Not only that, the actual first time we seen a Caucasian drawing of the human characters was through CALLIOPE ON ROXY. And Roxy reacted that she LOVES IT!!! Does that mean the black girl doesn't mind being whitewash or race swapped?

That means in Trickster mode, it is CALLIOPE who is making everyone white with her lollipop Juju. It happens again in the Credits too during Rose and Kanaya's wedding. Does that mean she is the one who is making the whitewash happen? Calliope is suppose to represent the GOOD side of the fandom, is she not?

But if James Roach and HICU were to show some black traits or black actions, people would accuse them for stereotyping. Nobody wins in this game at that point.

Now you brought up about Dave saying the n-word. But isn't it a more stereotype to assume black speeches and manners are what makes people think a person is black? Because that is what you were implying there of why the characters are POC. And I don't recall Karkat growing as a person or saying sorry to people like Nepeta for calling her autistic? As far as I know, he kept on using Dead Nepeta jokes as if he was the world's best comedian. So he fine with using a dead autistic cat girl as a punchline.

At least have PROOF or EVIDENCE that someone in the fandom had pretended to be black. The only thing I can agree with you is that there a lot of white people that speak up about black matters, but nobody calls them out. Not just in the fandom spaces, but corporates as well who make up and function our society and the world. You wouldn't talk shit to a white man who is growing your food because you don't know how to garden yourself and would starve to death without them.

And yet people still draw Trickster Roxy with black skin because they don't care the canon. People are allowed to draw what they like. If someone draws Roxy white, that's fine. If someone draws Dave as Asian, that's fine too. It's all okay. And HS2/Beyond Canon could have shown representation through the OMEGA KIDS, but they didn't because if they start interpreting the characters now, it would contradict the overworld look that has been around from the base and current shitty sequel comic. Those fuckers are nothing more than plot devices than their own beings. Please answer me this @themageofblood if some of the things I said are wrong.

[beejoco]

what do you think karas godtier would be? (other brothers too? but mostly kara)

Funny you should ask that! I actually was and AM working on fancy godtier art for them all, and that's STILL in the works, BUUUTTTT...

i did draw some very rough color references for myself for said fancy pics! i really took a long time mulling over their personalities with my buddy who plays dirk, they're like. insanely awesome at assigning godtiers and -- honestly, i feel a lot of previously assigned GTs for these guys tend to be a bit like. surface level? rather than looking super super deeply at ALL their traits and WHY they are the way they are. Hearts in the right place, but i just don't feel like enough of them tend to be considered when pondering this kinda stuff personally. And I get it, these guys ARE crazy complex!! but. there's a TON to be taken into account.

example, i often see something like void assigned to karamatsu, and while some parts of it DO fit him, it really just isn't his personality ... karamatsu my karamatsu i have many thoughts on but it's unique how he always holds out such hope and has such faith things CAN get better even if not for himself, so i always thought he'd be WAY more of a hope player anyways. plus all his knight imagery, yknow...

but that's only a little bit of the reasoning! i have more for all the others. I'll just give a quick run down and show the pic i had made.

page of blood osomatsu

knight of hope karamatsu

sylph of void choromatsu

bard of rage ichimatsu

witch of space jyushimatsu ( though frankly any witch could probably work for him )

thief of mind todomatsu

I can totally elaborate more on these, but you'll either need to send another ask OR wait til i drop the full fancy godtier designs i have for them that will include the analysis of them all!!!

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

You might’ve already got this before, and I’m asking this in genuinely good faith.

Your essay was very interesting, and convinced me of Erikar as a ship reading. I also really enjoyed your dissection of Eridan as a very honest person drawn into destructive behavior. It very much lines up with his status as a Prince of Hope! One who destroys conviction/belief through conviction/belief.

What confused me was your insistence on the hidden hand of the author. Death of the Author and all that, what’s implied in the text can be taken on its own separate from commentary but you seem to be doing an autopsy— the text implies [this] so *Hussie* must have intended for [this] and then tried to cover it up. If they genuinely thought it was a better ending, why not do it? Why the secrecy, why the feints? I think it’s a little conspiracy-brained to insist on a secret “better ending” that we don’t have author’s word or drafts on.

I’m also a little drifted on your frustration with the deaths of the trolls? You write that the theme of Homestuck— a standard coming-of-age story, a reckoning with society and the exit from youth— is undercut by the deaths of the trolls, because that means they *had* to die, in *punishment*. I disagree. Their deaths are tragic, not just.

Homestuck has a lot of methods of revival, the choice to (for the most part) perma-kill some characters (the trolls for one, and then AR, WQ, and WK) is a deliberate choice to make death mean something. If dying doesn’t mean anything, what are the narrative stakes? Murderstuck marks Gamzee as a threat, Eridan as a tragedy. The deaths there are meant. To be sad. To demonstrate that sometimes kids don’t get to grow up, that sometimes the society they live in cuts them down.

Homestuck is a sad story at times! It doesn’t need an ending where everyone gets to live to keep its coming-of-age conclusion.

I hope this made sense. I’m not trying to attack you, I’m just skeptical of some of your points. I hope you go on to do more analysis in the future!

If you want to believe that, go ahead 👍 again, arguing my points on that front would require its own entire essay, lol, so I'm not really planning to do that as the answer to an ask. The only thing I really want to say here is that while Homestuck is often sad, as you say, its underlying tone is unwaveringly hopeful right up until Game Over/the Retcon, and even kind of beyond that. If you prefer a sad story, then you can have a sad story, but it's just not a reading consistent (to me) with the entire rest of what Homestuck is.

For example, the whole narrative grapples with the debate of predestination vs. free will. Do things happen in Homestuck because they have to, or because characters are making choices? But with the introduction of John's retcon powers, it lands firmly in the "free will" side of the debate: the retcon powers outright defy the power of stable time loops - a reflection of how Breath is associated with freedom and choice. This is the optimistic option.

Another thing the narrative grapples with is the realness vs. fakeness of magic. I don't think it's hard to argue that between LE's "evil wizard" status and Godtier!Calliope's wand-induced black hole that the arrow falls firmly in the realm of magic being undeniably real. This is the optimistic option (and yet another narrative element that Eridan is extremely relevant to).

Moreover, even post-Retcon, there are elements that are kept that soften the tragedy already present in the story - for example, the concept of the Ultimate Self, and the implication that all surviving characters will eventually achieve it, takes the edge off all their doomed and dead counterparts, who won't actually be relegated to double death in the dream bubbles, since in a way, they'll live on through their alpha counterparts. It turns those sacrifices from bitter to bittersweet, and serves as a counterpoint to common takes like John being sad that he doesn't know the version of his friends that exist post-Retcon. The inclusion of it in the post-Retcon story, even with its botched delivery, says to me that Homestuck is still intended to be optimistic at its core, even with the extreme Giving Up that Hussie did.

And let's not forget how Calliope gets to come back to life, no strings attached, and that her stated purpose is only to live. Up to the end, the tone is that of HOPE, and I think there's no mistake that HOPE is supposed to be what defeats LE.

As I said in replies on that post, as an artist, I just can't imagine spending literal years, and literally a million words and thousands of images, writing something that's so thematically and tonally consistent, only to hard swerve right at the end, without extenuating circumstances.

And the thing is, there WERE extenuating circumstances, and they're fairly well-documented.

The kickstarter got funded, and while the story is muddled, we know the production of the game was extremely troubled, and Hussie was having difficulty being a project lead for that while also grappling with everything else. Everything else being, of course, an ever-increasing number of irons in the fire - more third-party artists he had to commission and manage, more merchandise he had to be on top of, bigger updates to sate the demands of the fanbase.

Which, speaking of, was infamously one of the most awful and toxic fanbases to ever exist, and one that Hussie has deliberately attempted to distance himself from since. I can't imagine the kind of daily abuse, harassment, callouts, and worse that Hussie had to endure as Homestuck's creator during the fandom's peak years. I don't blame him at all for turning against them.

Therefore, given the way the tone and themes hard swerve, the way several characters get bent entirely out of shape (you're telling me Karkat had several means before him of bringing his dead friends back and WOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING???), the way several plot threads are simply left dangling in the air, and the way some characters reach really weird and unpleasant conclusions (davepeta, gcatavrosprite), I think it's actually LESS reasonable to assume that the ending we got was the original plan. Hussie saw that to do the ending he wanted to do back in act 4, he'd need to write for a year, maybe two years more, and then looked at his mounting stress and pressure, and looked at the fanbase he'd come to hate, and just went "nope." And I can't even really blame him for it, lol. In his position I'd probably do the same.

Also, please don't mistake "the deaths are undone" for "the deaths will not have mattered" - I think there's a reason that the game over timeline characters still exist post-Retcon. Their arcs don't end with their deaths, and their failures are weights on them that must be narratively resolved - I believe that they go on to be the ones to defeat LE, although I have much less evidence to support this. It just makes narrative sense to me - the post-retcon team focuses down the Felt, various Jack Noirs, and the Condesce - the latter of which is their final boss, as the ultimate representation of the shitty society they're doing away with on their path to creating a new one.

Meanwhile, the dead and "irrelevant" versions of the characters, the ones who grappled with and were harmed the most by what LE represents - immaturity, selfishness, and cruelty - go on to band together after death, and defeat him in the bubbles, a culmination of their vengeance for the havoc he wreaked. And with him being destroyed in the bubbles by the dead and irrelevant, symbolically, he will be rendered nothing more than a bad dream for the waking, relevant, and alive.

Thus Gamzee is still an antagonist, although it becomes (Gamzee) and (Equius) who go on to form LE. Those deaths and those failures still matter, they still happen, they still have narrative weight. Even without the Game Over versions of the characters still existing and still being important, the decision to welcome antagonists like Gamzee and Eridan back into the fold is rendered more complex and more significant BECAUSE we've seen how badly they can go.

The speech originally given by post-Retcon Vriska to (Vriska) is also, to me, a weird artifact of this hypothetical original ending - as it exists within the actual comic, it's said by the wrong person to the wrong person - Vriska with her character development reset to a (Vriska) who's had her characterization destroyed in order to make the first Vriska seem more right. I think originally, it would've come from (Karkat) to Meenah, the latter of which being the one whose idea it was to fuck off with the treasure, and who caused the Beforus team's worst problems, and who has a track record of fucking off whenever she's tasked with taking responsibility. Thus, it would serve as a conclusion to Meenah and Karkat's arc, as well as Game Over Sadkat's arc specifically, would convince Vriska to go with him, and would give Meenah some narrative commeuppance, which would kickstart some sort of Beforan troll feelings jam that would rally them together to actually be useful for once in their lives/afterlives and contribute to the LE fight.

Again, if you PREFER the sad ending, I can't stop you, but the reason I'm going in on there being an "original ending" that isn't sad is because the sad ending doesn't make narrative sense. Why is the ultimate self speech coming from a combination of two characters that barely spoke? Why is it triumphant that Meenah and character-development-reset Vriska get to be the big goods in the fight with LE? Why do multiple prophecies suddenly get dropped right at the end when all other prophecies DO come true? Why does Karkat spend so long being sad his friends are dead, and also why is he deliberately set up as the Friends Troll (blood = bonds), and then suddenly not care that multiple methods exist for bringing back his friends? Why bother softening the blow of all the dead/irrelevant alternate selves if they're intended to be fully tragic? Why introduce a mechanic that would let them save whoever they want consequence-free and then not use it to do that? Why does Roxy love wizards so much and then not get to meet the wizard boy? Why is the entire rest of Homestuck so carefully crafted, so narratively satisfying, so thematically and tonally consistent, and then all of it goes to shit right at the end?

So yeah lol this is the SHORT version lol this isnt even the LONG version of this essay

[larrythefloridaman]

My boy Crimson please

First of all, I'm going to state- within the context of the Rhetorical Device Homestuck AU that these analyses imply, I'm not actually certain the ciblings would be players, but sapient sburb constructs something weird and fucked up and unintended in the design of the game happened to. Those things are denizens or something to that effect that're acting wildly off-script. I feel they're too aware of and fundamentally enmeshed with how the medium functions to be ordinary players, even if we assumed this were a case of a set of godtiers from a successful session, and they very much started as abstract beings before Becoming people-shaped.

But "Not Applicable" is a coward's answer and I won't be resorting to it.

There are a couple of obvious answers one might point to on the surface level, which seem compelling at first, but upon closer scrutiny, actually fall apart somewhere along the line- kind of suitably for Crimson's whole deal, really. I don't actually think Crimson is a Thief of Heart, or a Bard of Space.

Thief of Heart appears obvious- his whole thing is possessing people, isn't it? But while theres definitely something to be said about Crimson and his being decent at scoping out people's feelings and the 'heartlessness' and some of his arc fitting with the thief's journey- lacking in their aspect at first (vriska being raised by just about the worst parental figure you can picture losing the lottery of birth about as hard as you can, and meenah feeling suffocated by the inevitable responsibility of leadership she'd inherit, leaving her without a 'life' of her own) and spending much of their arc stealing it for themselves- his whole thing ISN'T possessing people, thats just something he does, something gods do. Prism possesses people too, it just functions a bit differently. I think attributing his possession as a heart thing is sort of akin to attributing the trolls' psychic powers to their classpects, like they can certainly thematically connect, but theyre not like. one and the same. Tavros doesnt talk to animals because hes a Page of Breath he talks to animals because thats the psychic power he inherited bc that happens with trolls. Not everything is analog to a sburb thing. This is a case of thinking too directly and literally to me.

Bard of Space, then? Similarly obvious-feeling. He sure is destructive and he only ever does anything through proxies and indirect orchestrated actions, and he's the god of dimensions, and he literally tried to collapse the multiverse during the constants ordeal, right? I think this is also thinking too literally. The keyword here is tried. He failed, because he did too good of a job setting up his system to stabilize the multiverse to successfully destroy it, as such if this were his aspect he'd be a pretty objective failure at it- which while it isnt necessarily a strong argument by itself, i feel runs counter to a lot of the narrative point with him, that he in his rebellion stumbled directly into giving an award-winning performance of the role he was born to play from Prism's perspective.

I think the truth lies in splitting the difference- (passive like bard, stealing class like thief) a Rogue of Space- and assuming an Inversion happened somewhere along the line. Heres where we have to get into the weird half-remembered classpect theory shit ive been trying to delve into as little as possible with these-

So, classpect inversion is a decidedly theoretical state which can be inferred but not proven wherein, under select circumstances and with the right catalyst, a player's classpect can. Well. Invert. Their class flips to its counterpart along the active/passive scale and their aspect flips to the opposite in their aspect pair in a surface level manner, not entirely unlike how I've described a destructive class appears like the opposite aspect of what they actually are. The common example of this happening in homestuck canon to my memory is Rose's cynical and bitter phase leading to her going Grimdark after learning that their session of the game cannot be won- she is ordinarily a Seer of Light, a passive scholar class which shares comprehensive knowledge of their aspect with their teammates, which concerns itself with fact (bringing knowledge to Light, as it were,) and fortune. She retains these traits- but they become transformed through context and hardship into something resembling their inverse when she becomes disillusioned and frustrated by her and her friends doomed quest and elects to try to find a way to change their fate through going off on her own to break the game open, destroy it's constructs, create holes in it's systems, Voids where there was once substance, manipulated by the gods of the Furthest Ring, the void around the game's construct. She is still a Seer of Light, a seeker and sharer of knowledge motivated by doing right by her team, but she's started acting less like herself, and more as an active class of the Void aspect might, in service to that ultimate purpose.

Now, for how this applies to Crimson. The theft classes, Rogue and Thief, are concerned with the redistribution of their aspect, the Thief to themself, the Rogue to their allies. A Space player is one concerned with the big picture as much as they are the literal contours of space and dimension and physics, concerned with recycling and creation, propagation, a passive aspect that 'hosts the stage until the curtains fall away.' 'How they do something is nearly as important as what they do. At their best steady, impartial, and creative, at their worst detached and vague.' As the extended zodiac puts it.

If one were to place all of your attention on what crimson does in season 3 and Grands, some of that may sound like a strange way to read crimson- but the context which both season one and the nccts provide... clarifies a lot of behavior. Circa season one, Crimson behaved... quite differently. Reserved and detached, quiet, distant. Crimson didn't pick fights and grovel for allies indiscriminately like he does by the time Orange rolls around- he sized up threats, made deliberate powerplays, chose his battles, gambled confidently for advantages. A creature of a grander and more complicated nature, taking on a loose-fitting facsimile of humanity until, with time, it grew more convincing, developed a flair for showmanship.

These deliberate qualities of his personality and MO are also represented in the systematic approach by which he's organized and automated his godly duties, distributing the responsibility for holding up the multiverse across his patrons, a point of pride and responsibility Crimson took more seriously than one might expect, given we learn this through him trying to burn it all down out of spite, given Cobalt's failure to do the same became such a point of contention between them. Crimson, when comfortable (or at least at a reduced level of stress) operates heavily by a principle of 'work smarter, not harder,' and these qualities also get a chance to shine in NCCT4 and Majestic, wherein he takes an organizational role in keeping the different brackets communicating enough to prevent any major issues that could've been created through Prism isolating them, and a pivotal role in evacuating the Majestic cast from their crumbling world. He's also a nurturer, good with kids and animals, and even when he's possessing others, he acts as an excuse, as an empowerment, he gives them a new and impossible to ignore place in the grand scheme of things for a while, by taking their place. Be honest with me. Look me in the eyes. If Crimson hadn't possessed his suit The Guy would be spiraltier, not in the Grand Kerfuffle fighting Chartreuse in the very last streamed episode of CPUK.

The shift, the temporary Inversion, came with his bitterness with his lot in life and his increasing desperation to 'beat' Prism at this pointless suffering game by hiding and fighting and making deals and improvising to stay alive and unharmed and claim some kind of control over his own life, to buy himself time, after being trapped in Crimsonaut and Cobalt's presence made him feel even more powerless, becoming more involved and more ruthless and more active in his pursuit of a metaphorical escape from the threat of having his form and his life destroyed. The constants arc- from an in-universe perspective a cryptic and disastrous cry for help/threat that almost caused a multiversal cataclysm, from a narrative perspective a massive futile waste of everyone's time because almost nothing actually happened.

[ty-bayonet-betteridge]

here to ask about your voice classpecting!!

sorry i asked for this and then immediately took twelve years to answer it anyway

The Broken as Maid of Doom - because of his role serving The Princess, especially the iterations of her more connected with her apocalyptic powers (The Tower, the Moment of Clarity.) using the interpretation of "Maid" class being in the service of their aspect, or serving another more powerful player (Porrim babysitting Kankri/The Dolorosa raising The Signless, Aradia tidying up timelines and eventually coming into the service of godtier!Calliope, Jane being conscripted into the service of The Condesce (notably another Life-aligned individual)).

The Cheated as Mage of Light - The Cheated's obsession with the "unfairness" of their situation reads to me as a good thematic link with the concept of Light as it's defined in Homestuck as a representation of luck, especially with his occasional gambling references ("we're the house now, we make the rules" from the ending for example.) As for Mage, I'm going with the speculation that Mages are those deprived of their aspect but who are able to bring it to others (Meulin being a talented shipper but not having much luck in love herself, Sollux correctly foreseeing the deaths of his friends and his virus causing their session to be cursed, but cheating death again and again.) The Cheated, while generally at the butt of the most unfair situations, brings about luck to others; He can be a part of The Thorn route, where despite being betrayed he breaks the cycle of violence with The Princess, and his role as a ringleader in The Razor's route is what inevitably gives The Quiet the lucky break of empyting his mind in order to fight The Razor.

The Cold as Sylph of Void - The Cold just HAD to be a Void player there was no other way. being empty is His Whole Thing. I decided on Sylph as the class bc of the healer/protector connotations - "healing through nothingness" is hard to conceive but is arguably what The Cold was doing in the Moment of Clarity and Razor routes by trying to convince the other Voices to adopt his emptiness in order to shield themselves from pain.

The Contrarian as Witch of Rage - Rage, the aspect of chaos! While the Contrarian does seem keen on bringing chaos, at first they seem a poor fit for Rage as they don't seem to bear any negative emotions, never getting angry that I can recall. However, this ties into the Witch class as "one who defies the rules of their aspect" - The Contrarian is addicted to the chaos that Rage brings, but facilitates it without the anger or physical strength that are usually also tied to it. He's also able to defy the rules of the narrative in general, being the only Voice whose presence allows throwing the knife out the window.

The Hero as Rogue of Hope - The Hero is hard to place, being less of a larger-than-life character than the other voices, but I think of them as someone willing to facilitate any plan that they think is for the greater good. He gives up much less easily than some of the other Voices, so Hope is a natural choice, and as for Rogue - I think no matter what route you go down, the Hero ends up going along with it in a way that ruins one character's dreams in order to benefit another character, but not himself. He goes along with killing the Princess, robbing her of hope, in order to feed the Narrator's hopes of a world without death. He helps free The Damsel, crushing the Narrator's hopes but feeding hers and the Smitten's. Even in the ending, his arrival gives the Quiet hope, where it previously had none, while also at the same time ruining the Shifting Mound's hopes of ending the clash quickly.

The Hunted as Page of Life - The Hunted's number one concern is keeping themself and the other voices alive, with everything else coming second - he is content to dodge forever, as it keeps him alive, which ties into the motives of a Life player. Pages, of course, are known for the inauspicious starts leading up to massive potential. The Hunted starts off as meek and frightened, but when his instincts kick in, he is one of the most capable Voices in a fight, able to keep the system alive against The Razor longer than the other Voices as well as having the instincts necessary to dodge The Beast and defeat The Eye of the Needle out in the open.

text block break because apparently Tumblr parses lists as one text block and this hit the character limit

The Opportunist as Thief of Heart - The Opportunist is self-interested, and willing to screw others over to get his own way - the essence of a Thief's role! He also has a tendency to put on different "masks" depending on who he's dealing with, which is apparently a quintessential Heart player thing according to the Extended Zodiac (and true given what we see in the comic - Dirk is constantly being duplicitous and Meulin subconsciously hides the fact that she's working with Kurloz. Nepeta's roleplaying could tie into this as well.) "Thief of Heart" would be "one who robs the soul or identity of others in order to benefit themself," and the Opportunist's handing of the knife to The Witch, leading to The Thorn route, robs the princess of her agency, a central part of The Witch's identity (as she is one of the Princesses who quickly escapes her own chains.) It's also worth mentioning that four of the six routes which lead to The Wild - the route where the player is robbed of their individual identity - involve The Opportunist's influence.

The Paranoid as Heir of Mind - I'm going with the "Heir as protector/protected" interpretation here (John saved by the Breeze before he learned to use his powers consciously, Equius blocking out Scratch's omnipotence/his blood blocking out information/him using his fists to defend himself AKA using nothing, Mituna burning out his psychic powers saving the dancestors from an enigmatic disaster). The Paranoid uses a mind-over-matter approach to protect himself and the other Voices from The Nightmare's effects, and his anxieties about what could happen after any given choice also seem very Mind-coded.

The Quiet/The Player as Knight of Breath - The Quiet's defining role in the story AND within the system itself is as "the one who makes the choices." this makes him logically a very active class, and Breath a suitable aspect, as it deals with having freedom and choice more than is afforded to other players (John being unstuck from the narrative, The Summoner's revolution being an attempt at bringing freedom to the lower castes.) Knight as the class choice is mostly just because of the hero associations, but also because The Quiet, when freed from the other voices, is a competent fighter as seen in Mutually Assured Destruction. Knight of Breath would be "one who uses freedom/self-expression/choice/self-direction as a weapon," which is somewhat true of the player; if the player attacks the vessel while in The Long Quiet before his awakening, it says that you lash out with your "will."

The Skeptic as Seer of Space - The Skeptic, regardless of route, is intent on testing the boundaries of the world to discover its secrets. He wants to know the rules of the world they live in - as such it makes sense for him to be one uniquely equipped to find those answers. Admittedly I think this one is kind of weak.

The Smitten as Bard of Blood - THIS ONE IS PERFECT AND I WILL HEAR NOTHING AGAINST IT. Bard of Blood would be "one who invites destruction/allows destruction through their relationships with others." The Smitten's ENTIRE THING is that their passion for the Princess in all forms leads to her always advocating letting her out, thereby destroying the world. Bards are also known as wildcards that either save or doom their teams, and The Smitten is one of the few Voices that seizes control and does so for varying motives, including ending his own life after the player slays the Damsel. 10/10 no notes lines up perfectly.

The Stubborn as Prince of Time - Time is one of the most combative aspects, according to the Extended Zodiac, and the Prince one of the most combative aspects. What's more, Princes are usually devoid of their aspect, having destroyed it in themselves, and The Stubborn is characterized as deeply impatient (lacking in time). The Stubborn is certainly a destroyer, as they are the only Voice who suggests smashing the mirror. What's more, their obsession with fighting to the death with the Princess could be seen as wanting to "destroy the time" that both of them have left.

I'll also throw out lunar sways based solely on vibes:

Prospit: The Contrarian, The Hero, The Hunted, The Opportunist, The Quiet/The Player, The Smitten

Derse: The Broken, The Cheated, The Cold, The Paranoid, The Skeptic, The Stubborn

[mexicanegbert]

really love thinking about the post-godtiered players having to practice in order to get better. Going Ultimate is cool and all, but it would have been really neat if there was an additional mechanic or benefit to working hard to become stronger + use your powers creatively. sort of like an extension of "figuring yourself out."

Going Ultimate w/o becoming a master of your Aspect: your body dies suddenly because it's not used to that amount of output and cannot handle it

Going Ultimate w/ becoming a master of your Aspect: still a risk, but you're a seasoned god of your craft and your body is used to the output. this could even occur naturally as a result of your effort

idk just a fun thought :] especially when john noted that godtiering rewards cowardice and inaction (you only die if it's just or heroic). i know that the act of becoming your Ult Self is supposed to be the unfolding of your true self, but in cases like Rose (overcome with it, body ailed heavily by the onslaught) and Dave (sort of accepted it all at once. also lowkey a castiel turbo hell moment if you think about him coming out as gay and then immediately dying lmao) it just feels too soon. they are overcome because they were stagnant before, unable to face themselves and their power until it overwhelmed them. it feels more like their aspect controls them instead of the other way around.

also, of couse, dirk maintaining his physical form is interesting too. i know its implied only he can really do this as a part of his specific aspect's "perks," but in my thoughts here i would imagine that aradia's ultimate form could maintain her physical self as a result of her practicing a ton (visiting doomed timelines for fun etc, regularly trying new things with her aspect).

lastly, it's just really fun to imagine them all having to be bad at what they're doing first. i'm someone who loves to see the consequences of power usage, so it would be cool to have context for when they've reached a limit, when they've surpassed that limit, and when they have mastered it enough to perform insane acts without drawbacks (like jade in cascade or dave jumping thousands of years into the future). roxy and john are my favorite examples of this, since they have to master something new by practice and by instinct. it's also a representation of them both learning more about themselves :]

[cgtg]

HEY, thief of doom here, 1st i totally agree that way more eople should 8e picking classes like this, especially with how interesting they are, 2nd i picked this class 8ecause of ego mostly, since i believed i was a witch or rogue for a certain amount of time 8ut rogues are way too, like, unsure of tbeir aspect to be a thief, and witches revolve more around understanding and manipulating something rather than just taking it and using it, when it comes to 8eing a thief of doom specifically it mostly has to do with "always facing great misfortune" and the fact that it relates to things like fate & death also which very surprising are very important themes in my life, like, i kid you not, this shit GENUINELY leads me through life, which i guess makes sense 8ut is still kinda crazy to think, idk if i should go more into detail into what a thief of doom would do in s8ur8 or what theyre like specifically so imma just wrap it up here, so thanks if you read this!

hell yeah thieves. i think a lot of ppl are scared to touch the “active” classes that textually act in self-benefit, bc we’re taught that having “an ego” & wanting to behave fully independently/in our own self interest is inherently wrong. there isn’t anything wrong with that, there’s a difference between that & being a complete asshole. unfortunately the archetypal thief is the easiest for ppl to place on this axis by its very conception. it’s easy to assign to a character, but not to a person u think is kind, & *especially* not urself.

i think ppl are more open to being a witch, for example, because the “good witch” has more of a presence in media (including homestuck itself) while still feelin distinctly witchlike. in most media, including the systems homestuck is inspired by, rogues/thieves are easily conflated. a lot of ppl would say a “morally good thief” is just “a rogue”. eg robin hood. & nobody wants to be “the bad one”, that’s not good…! consider how popular the rogue class has been in these polls by comparison.

i ended up goin on a whole rando rant here, so i’m just gonna tuck the rest under this thing. thank u for giving ur perspective ^_^

it’s a limitation of the godtier system that is intentional & effective in-comic with fictional characters, but when it’s lifted into the massive nuance of “real human beings” it can buckle under the weight.

we get a rlly limited scope for how certain classes can act w/in a narrative. damara vs jade, or rufioh vs roxy, i think are good examples of how differently a single class can present/act based on the person & their circumstances. myself & one of my closest friends, who also chooses witch (of life/heart), are *extremely* different ppl. i see no reason that a thief can’t vary just as much. i’m not trying to arbitrate how an irl thief guy should be, or anything, i just… hypothesize this is the reason they’re not picked often. folks are basically decent, & most ppl (including assholes) don’t wanna walk around saying “i’m an asshole”. feel like i’ve seen ppl who pick prince talk abt having this issue too. but they have dirk as an avenue to *easily* understanding the prince w/ more nuance to their role & personality.

& im not saying vriska lacks nuance. i’m not saying i hate vriska. i’m saying she’s easy to view without nuance & easy to hate. just like a thief. & with all this, it seems reasonable 2 me to expect that only people who rlly love/relate to vriska would feel comfortable openly picking thief. a very exclusive class… maybe it works out after all.

thieves rule. u rule & thanks for sharing ur perspective. sorry it ended up w me doing a huge rando rant haha.

[homestuck-iconz]

honk :o)

hi how're you doing

can i pls get a classpect analysis for an heir of rage (it's me i'm the heir of rage)

(derse) heir of rage analysis coming fresh from the oven!

so to start off simple; heirs generally embody their aspect, passively altering it. rage is the aspect of anger and unpredictability. naturally, a heir of rage would embody anger and unpredictability, altering it and influencing the rage of others around them.

our example of a heir in canon: june egbert. june is the heir of breath, and embodies freedom--- powerwise, she is able to physically transform herself into wind as well as manipulate it to move the way she wants. in terms of her personality, she tends to go along with the flow, just doing what she's told to do by others. her power of retcon plays into this too, allowing her to free herself from the narrative and arguably free her companions from the doomed timeline of game over by resetting it.

our example of a rage player in canon: gamzee makara. gamzee in canon is unpredictable, being kept pacified by his sopor slime until he runs out, at which point he kills two of his teammates in a fit of anger. throughout the whole game, he does unexpected things--- spriting his dead friends, getting to earth c early and raising caliborn (somehow).

derse dreamers generally gravitate towards rebellion; they reject the expectations set on them by the game and by the people around them, and usually end up taking an unconventional path to beating the game/their land quest/godtiering.

rose is the most particular example of this. instead of following her land's quest, she ignores it and focuses on finding information in her own way. this leads to her seeking answers from the horrorterrors, who reside outside of derse, and ends with her going grimdark. in the end, she abandons her planet and its quest entirely, instead trying to destroy the green sun; it's ironically through this that she ends up godtiering.

with all these in mind, your heir of rage would either embody unpredictability and/or anger depending on which part of the aspect they're more bound to. they might be exceedingly random or convince others to do things for arbitrary reasons. they could also have a short temper, and might be good at making people angry (i.e manipulating their rage) either purposefully or on accident.

they would be extremely averse to the game and its "plan" for them, which would pair well with their anger. they might be a contrarian, disagree with people just for the sake of disagreeing. despite this, they wouldn't necessarily be all around bad to hang out with--- they could be a go-getter, or inspire others to take action when something is frustrating them. they would make good rebels against unjust systems.

(and as always reminder that that a player's personality is also dependent on factors other than their classpect, and making your classpect a big part of your identity sometimes ends up hurting the player (vriska) as much as it can be freeing for them (aradia)!! thank you for the ask hope this was useful ^-^)